The Unteachables Podcast

#64: Conquering the colossal to do-list, embracing imperfection, and being "more like Kerrie". Swimming, surviving, and thriving, with Ashley from Rainbow Sky Creations

• Claire English • Season 4 • Episode 64

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In this episode of The Unteachables Podcast, I sit down with Ashley, a seasoned teacher with 18 years of experience and half of the wonderful Rainbow Sky Creation crew, to discuss practical strategies for managing the demands of teaching. Ashley shares invaluable tips that every teacher, especially those in their early years, can benefit from. From finding mentors and effective time management to self-care and flexibility in the classroom, Ashley's insights are designed to inspire and support educators at every stage of their careers.

In this episode, we cover:

  • Finding a Mentor: How to identify and learn from efficient colleagues to work smarter, not harder.
  • Peer Learning: The benefits of observing and engaging with fellow teachers for professional development.
  • Managing Overwhelm: Techniques for organizing tasks and reducing stress.
  • Reframing Your To-Do List: Viewing your list as a wish list to change your mindset and reduce pressure.
  • Prioritising Self-Care: The importance of hobbies and activities outside of work to prevent burnout, as well as taking sick days when needed.
  • Flexibility in Teaching: Giving yourself and your students grace and knowing when to change plans.
  • Authenticity and Relationship Building: The impact of being genuine and building strong relationships with students, as well as establishing crucial connections with your teaching community

Plus a bunch more!

If you want to learn more from Ashley, you can find her any place she hangs out:
Instagram @rainbowskycreations https://www.instagram.com/rainbowskycreations/
TikTok https://www.tiktok.com/@rainbowskycreations?lang=en
Podcast: Rainbow Skies for New Teachers https://podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast/rainbow-skies-for-new-teachers/id1713486550



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Speaker 1:

Welcome to the Unteachables podcast. I'm Claire English, a passionate secondary teacher and leader, turned teacher, mentor and author, and I'm on a mission to transform classroom management and teacher support in schools. It doesn't feel that long ago that I was completely overwhelmed and out of my depth with behavior, trying to swim rather than sink. It took me spending thousands of hours in the classroom, with all of the inevitable ups and downs, to make me the teacher that I am today Confident, capable and empowered in my ability to teach all students yes, even the ones who are the toughest to reach and now I'm dedicated to supporting teachers like yourself to do the same. I created the Unteachables podcast to give you the simple and actionable classroom management strategies and support that you need to run your room with confidence and calm. So if you're a teacher or one in the making, and you're wanting to feel happy and empowered and actually enjoy being in the classroom, whilst also making a massive impact with every single one of your students, then you're definitely in the right place. Let's get started.

Speaker 1:

Hi, wonderful people, welcome back to the Unteachables podcast. Today, you won't just have to listen to me ramble on about everything, because I have some company which I'm very excited about. It's always nice to have somebody to feed off, and today we're going to be talking to the new teachers in the room, or the teachers in training, or the teachers who support new teachers pretty much anyone really but particularly for the new teachers in the room, because the guests that I have on that is their bag. Welcome, ashley. You are half of the Rainbow Sky beautiful team and it's so nice to have you on today.

Speaker 2:

Thank, you so much, claire. I am so excited to be here and I'm so glad. You said at the beginning that this is for new teachers, but really it can be for anyone, because I know as a teacher I've been a teacher for 18 years now that some of these things that we're going to be talking about today are relevant to me. My mum's been a teacher for 40 years. They're relevant to her. So you know, yes, new teachers, we're here to help you, but this can be helpful no matter where you are in your teaching journey, I guess.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, absolutely, and I think it's so nice to have you on because you align with one of my main values, which is just all teachers having access to the right support and the right community and, like the right village, the things that obviously we plan podcasts before we come on and talk about things, and the things we're going to be talking about, I'm like, oh gosh, at any point during my career I could have used a bit of a pep talk about this. So, absolutely right, and it really is just about when you get into the classroom, wherever you're at in your career, just being able to thrive, not to survive, and going from day to day thinking what the hell am I doing? There are so many things actually that I could just dig into with you about, but before we do that, can you just tell me a little bit more about you and the Rainbow Sky crew, because I'm sure that there are some people out there who are listening who haven't come across you somehow.

Speaker 2:

For sure. So I am one half of Rainbow Sky Creations. Alicia, my business partner, is the other half. I am Australian, as you can hear by my accent. I live in Sydney and Alicia lives on the other side of Australia, in Perth, and we actually met teaching in an international school in Dubai. So it actually spans quite a large part of the world and we first really got together and enjoyed each other's company by going traveling and we love reading books and we love just going on adventures. When we lived in Dubai we'd get in our car and drive out into the desert and do all sorts of fun things. So we had the connection there. And then Alicia moved to Sydney, my hometown.

Speaker 2:

When she moved back from Dubai and decided that she was going to create some clip art, and she said to me hey, listen, would you like to try and create some resources out of this clip art that I'm making? And quite honestly, I didn't even know selling clip art online was a thing. The Australian curriculum had just come in the very first version and I was in leadership and I had been delivering all of the PD to the staff and and I just had my first baby. So I was just off on maternity leave and we started and, honestly, it has just snowballed from there in the best way possible.

Speaker 2:

I love now that we can help teachers. We help teachers in Australia and all over the world. We have a membership for new teachers and we share teaching resources. Our love is to help new teachers. Our love is to help teachers save time, because that's one thing that we always found in the classroom that you're just always feeling time poor and you can never like you want to enjoy your job, and when you're feeling time poor, it's really hard to do that. And then our final love is just creating maths lessons that are fun and engaging for kids and for the teacher to teach, because we need to have fun teaching too.

Speaker 1:

I did not know that about you two and it's so nice to hear that and like thinking about the community that you have built and what you've kind of established. It's so beautiful because, yes, we're time poor, but also like your membership as well, like having a community of people that you can bring together and support them. Because you can have all the tools in the world, you can have all the resources in the world, but being able to put them together, having someone to support you to do that, is more important than that, I think. So you kind of come at it from both angles, like you've got the resources and all the things that you sell and I mean I would have loved a math teacher that delivered what you delivered. It would have been amazing.

Speaker 1:

I think I would have learned a lot more um, and I wouldn't have the kind of beliefs about myself in math that I would now. But you bring people together as well to support them, and I think that's what's missing in a lot of the things that we do in our classrooms. Like, I was the only English teacher that one of the schools I worked at. I know some people are the only teacher that kind of does that particular thing in their school. So when I saw your membership for new teachers, I was really excited that you were providing something like that for educators.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I think as teachers, we do sometimes act as silos in our own classroom, and that's not what teaching is about. We need to be working together as a team and sometimes it can be really hard to reach out for help, especially with other team members that might be stressed and overwhelmed themselves, or if you're a new teacher and we find this so much with new teachers they feel like they can't ask questions because the questions they're asking are to the people that are deciding if they get employed the following year, and that can be so overwhelming. But life is so much better when we come together and when we help each other and in our membership. Yes, we help the members in there, but they have taught us so many things as well, which has really been amazing.

Speaker 1:

That's so lovely to hear. There's a culture I don't know if it's the same in secondary schools when you first start now, but there's this culture in secondary schools where people are the gatekeepers of the resources they create and they get really funny about the resources they create and I'm like, come on, just share. Let's imagine if we all just did one amazing thing each and then share that amongst ourselves. But people get real funny about it.

Speaker 2:

It's funny. You say that I was just on a weekend away with two good friends of mine they're both high school teachers as well and we were talking about that that teachers don't want to always share and they're not always open to share and we were thinking like, why is that the case? And I was kind of reflecting upon it and thinking, well, if I'm the teacher that works all we can to create the resources to make sure that I've got these amazing lessons, and then teacher B comes in and they just do the bare minimum and then want your resources to teach their kids. Like that can give you a bad feeling and that's not always the way. But maybe that is where it stems from and that's why we keep things so close to ourselves. But what we probably need to do is change the narrative and be more giving and open. And that person okay, there's always going to be people like that, but there's always going to be other people like you that are going to want to share with you. And two heads is better than one, right?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and it establishes a bit of a culture where you are doing that, there are always going to be those teachers those teachers as well that are going to be like that they will take your resources. They're not going to do what you would do with them anyway, because you can give somebody a lesson, but you really need the pedagogy around it. So I think that, either way, if we're sharing, it's always going to be positive for the people who take that on board, and if they're not the kind of teachers that would share back, I think at least it's then kind of setting a standard and setting a bar. Like this is what we do here. And yeah, you can take, take, take, but it's so much more important for us to be working together on it.

Speaker 1:

I don't know, I just, yeah, I really I really hated that culture and I completely understand why people get, yeah, disgruntled with it because there are so many teachers that aren't going to kind of play that game as well. But, yeah, it's not going to cost me any extra time or money just to hand it over, is it?

Speaker 2:

We need culture changes like that in teaching, because it's already hard enough as it is.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and that's the first thing that I want to talk about with you. It is the fact that when we get into teaching, there is like this huge shock to the system, and that huge shock to the system is the fact that it's not just about being in our classroom teaching. It is about that never ending to-do list, and it's something that you can never get to the bottom of. And when you're less experienced in the classroom and I think that's why it's really important to speak to new teachers about this, even though it's relevant to all teachers when you're less experienced, you have less experience on deciding kind of which ones are more important, which ones are more crucial, which ones are like you know what. This probably isn't that important right now. How do you teach teachers to kind of triage that to-do list and pick out the things that are important and not drown in it and not feel like you have to do absolutely everything on that list immediately?

Speaker 2:

This is a great question, claire, because I think it doesn't matter what sort of teacher you are. You might be in preschool before they even start school, or you might be teaching grade 12. I even think if you were in the university setting as a teacher, you would feel this way that you've got a never ending to-do list and it doesn't matter. You could spend 24 hours a day working and I'm telling you you're never going to get through that to-do list because things always keep popping up and as teachers we're kind of. It's ingrained in us to always be doing better, to always be doing more, or I could just add in this. And when it comes to humans as well, we're dealing with little humans. Their needs are always going to need to be met. So when it comes to looking at that to-do list, I always advise our new teachers if you're feeling overwhelmed, sit down, give yourself 10 minutes to brain dump everything on anything that's on your mind, but make it a brain dump list. So put everything down, anything and everything we might have like a master to-do list. I even like to do this if I'm working on the computer. I just have a blank Google doc. So if I'm working on a task and something pops in my mind like, oh, I need to do this. I just jump over to that Google doc, I quickly type it in and then I go back to what I'm doing instead of like sort of veering off and multitasking and getting lost in all the bits and pieces. So I have that brain dump list to begin with. Then I start to triage or look at those different items on that to-do list and say what is the most important. The first thing that I say to new teachers is pull out one to two things a day that you can focus on. Having a list of 20 things it's not good for you, it's not good for productivity, it's not good for efficiency and you'll get overwhelmed with it. So pulling out one to two things a day is the first thing that I do. But I always say to them think about it. In regards to like, what is timely, what needs to be done according to like, you might need something handed into a principal. You might need to get back to a particular email about something important to do with the school. Is it going to have a benefit on student outcomes? So what you're doing is that related directly to the students in your class and I think that we need to really consider that when we're creating these things.

Speaker 2:

When I was in my second year of teaching it was many, many years ago now, but I was thinking about these kids I was in quite a difficult class. A lot of them needed a bit of more regulation, so I decided that they needed stress balls, and at the time I didn't have access to a budget or anything like that. So I decided I was going to make these stress balls with balloons and rice in my school holidays. So off I went. It took me like days to make these stress balls. I made one for everyone in the class I had about 32 students.

Speaker 2:

I made 32 of these stress balls, put them in a big tub, took them to school, explained it. It was great, we were going to use them. They started using them and then they started popping one by one. There was rice everywhere. Like it was a shit show and the lesson I learned in that was that I, number one, didn't need 32 of them. Number two, that wasn't really going to have an impact on my student outcomes. I probably could have done something better with my time than make their stressors, even though I kind of had a bit of fun doing it. And number three I probably should have just gone to my admin and said this is what I need to help my students with their regulation. Those sorts of terms we weren't using back then, but that was what I needed. Please, can I have the budget to go and purchase some of those stress balls that I needed? So we've all been there.

Speaker 1:

The irony as well that there were stress balls and that would have caused you immense amounts of stress.

Speaker 2:

Yes, it sure did, and I had to like bring in my vacuum cleaner from home in order to vacuum up that rice. Like it was terrible, and they're already a difficult class as it was. So I think if I had a triage, my to-do list that would definitely not have been on the top. That may have been all the way down the bottom, or that may have just been a great idea that I move on from and that's okay, too, to have ideas somewhere that you think I might remember that later, but you may move on from that and that's fine as well. You don't have to do everything. So really, look at that to-do list, look at what's important, look at what's going to impact student outcomes.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I love that and I love the brain. I do the brain dump all of the time, and I do it because we've always got our phones in our pockets, don't we? I always use Google Keep and people have like different things, so like anything that you can have both on your computer and on your phone, because I found, as a teacher as well, like running to the bathroom, like oh crap, I've forgotten that thing, I pop it on my to-do, like my um google keep, because I know it's right there in my pocket, just any way that we can brain dump things, because it just it clears the mind, doesn't it? It kind of takes away that urgency and that immediacy that we have to can, like just do that in that moment, um, and it just gives us the headspace to then crack on with whatever else we need to do. But I think that is such great advice, um, because you can't yeah, you can't explicitly tell someone. These are the things you should be working on, because it's really subjective, isn't it?

Speaker 2:

it is, and it depends on what's happening at the school at the time. I mean, it might be report writing season and if it's support writing, report writing season, that's that's the top of your list. Like, get that on the top of your list. Like, get that on the top of your list. Don't put that off, because then you'll be doing an all-nighter the day before that they're due. Or if it's something to do with a student in your class that really needs your focus, then that's okay too. That's only one student, but that's okay too.

Speaker 2:

And sometimes you need to cut corners. We're always telling our new teachers to work smarter and not harder and that it's not actually cheating. Like it is okay to have a lesson that's no frills, because you need to focus on other things. Like, as a teacher, you can't always be going at that a thousand percent all the time. And if you watch those teachers that have been teaching for a long time that you think are the best teachers out there. They ebb and flow with their energy. They know when they can pull things back, when they can, you know, step things up. So remember that too.

Speaker 1:

I think that's so important. I like people probably look at me and they're like, oh well, I bet she has great lessons all the time. The amount of times that I would choose the senior classes that I would set like a mock HSC exam or something so I could write my reports during class, because I knew that if I didn't do that, I wouldn't be able to get on top of things and I'd be spending my entire weekend Like using your time in a way that is going to help you. Like. My students still got something out of that. It was really important for them to do that.

Speaker 1:

It was at the end of the year.

Speaker 1:

They were needing to go into the HSC.

Speaker 1:

I was needing to do stuff for them, but also I needed to get those bloody reports written.

Speaker 1:

So I just really wanted to make sure that I was balancing those times and not every lesson is going to be perfect because, as you said, like if you're triaging that to-do list and you're like, crap, I've got to get this done for my principal tomorrow and I've also got a lesson with year eight tomorrow or whatever class you teach, uh, that year eight lesson isn't going to be one where I'm creating immersion centers and getting all the bells and whistles out. It's going to be one that is I'm going to give them a couple of comprehension sheets I've woven into something else, and it's going to give them a couple of comprehension sheets that I've woven into something else, and it's going to be really stock standard. I think that's so important for us to hear from more experienced teachers, and new teachers need to know it doesn't always have to be like there's that saying, isn't it? Like you're 30% one day is still your 100% when it comes to certain things, and I love that.

Speaker 2:

Yes, there's so many different examples of how we can do that in the classroom. In a primary classroom we have to do. We got to monitor our students with their reading and one thing teachers always think is that's an extra, an add-on. But what I used to always do is get our normal reading lesson set up we call it reading groups and instead of the kids reading with me, I'm doing the assessments that week and I know some leadership would think, no, you shouldn't be doing that. But it's actually not possible to then do the assessments on top of the lesson that you're supposed to be doing. So unless you've got the students there after school, which we know that you don't. So it's totally, that's totally okay.

Speaker 2:

Or repeating activities. I could even imagine in high school if you're repeating an activity that they really enjoyed or just tweaking it, so you're changing the topic slightly or changing the task slightly, they know exactly what to do and then that can allow you to sit with that other student that needs your support or quickly write back to that email. That's like really important. You know there's millions of different little jobs that teachers need to do, so for sure.

Speaker 1:

Absolutely the biggest problem is, though, I feel like things are constantly getting added. So, even if you've got your to-do list, if your principal comes to you and says, okay, here's another thing, this is a new initiative, how can we deal with that sense of overwhelm when things are constantly being added to the plate?

Speaker 2:

I hate this. As a teacher, this was like my pet hate. When you go to a staff meeting and then there's a new initiative, something extra that you have to do. There's probably two different ways you can go about it and I've tried both ways over my years of teaching and I think that these I've tried a few ways, but these are the two best ways. The first thing is if it can be done in five minutes, if the principal is saying okay, so this is a new initiative I need you to send me let's just make it really simple everyone in your class with the surname that starts with W in an email and that can be done in five minutes, while I'm there in the meeting or while I'm getting that initiative, I get back to them straight away. Just send off that information.

Speaker 2:

I know that that would never be a request, but it might be like reading levels or it might be. It could be anything. So if it can be done in five minutes, do it straight away. If it's a bigger thing, if it's something that's a really big change, sit back and let the trailblazers that are really gung-ho go ahead of you, because what I've done before is I've dived into something not known and it's taken a lot of time, and it's added to that overwhelm where there are teachers out there that will dive in and they'll figure out what works, what doesn't, and they can come back and give you some help in order to get it done. So really lean on your colleagues there, work with them.

Speaker 2:

There's going to be teachers that are capable in some areas over others and they are going to be able to help you, and sometimes I think it's okay to sit back and wait. The other thing about sitting back and waiting is that often these initiatives can come up and then they die as quickly as they came and you've been the teacher that's done the right thing, and I don't know as a teacher myself. I'm a people pleaser, like I'm a type A. I want to do the right thing and be, you know, the teacher's pet, so I want my principal to think I'm doing a good job, but that can die off. You've done all that work and nothing gets done with it, and I think that is the other thing that we need to consider as well.

Speaker 1:

I love that. It's so true. There's been so many situations where I've had a leader who has maybe seen something in a teaching magazine and gone ah yes, this is going to be cracking for my staff or my students. Let's try this tomorrow. With no concept of is going to be cracking for my staff or my students. Let's try this tomorrow. With no concept of what the implications would be on the staff or what the actual like gravity of that task might be. So what I do as well is I write an email and I say, hey, love that meeting. I thought it was really inspiring hearing that, or whatever you want to say.

Speaker 1:

I've been thinking about how this might look in practice. Is this something that like, does this sound like what you're after? And I just do some bullet points and I say, okay, we do X, Y and Z in our practice. Does that sound like something you're after? Because what I've also found is people go away and do the thing that they've been tasked with and they do it in a way that they weren't even like.

Speaker 1:

I think the leader hadn't really visualized or kind of come to terms with what that might look like in practice. So we go off and do all of this work on it, but actually they were envisioning something else so they hadn't communicated it to us clearly. So I always clarify before I go in and do something. That's a very big task for my leader. I go and clarify, I have a think about it, might think about it in the shower on the way home, just not putting heaps and heaps of thought into it, just a little bit of kind of rumination. And then I just pop an email together saying is this the kind of thing that you're after? If so, let's think about ways to move forward with it and make some time to do it.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I really really like that, because you're so right Someone's vision and how someone else has heard it can actually be two very, very different things.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and their vision might not even be established yet. Yeah, like if they're just kind of throwing it out there.

Speaker 2:

You know what you just said is a really good point for report writing as well. The amount of times my mum is a teacher and this has happened to her many times because she just dives right in. She's like just get it done. That's her strategy. She just wants to get things done as quickly as she can and I have seen her in tears when she's done her reports, handed it in, then gotten feedback about what is expected of the reports after she's handed them in. I mean, she's a really early bird but it has led her to tears and it's led her to often have to rewrite things over and over again. So asking from the get-go like what is expected? Like what do you want our comments to be? What is exactly going to be on the reports? So you know in advance, so you're not getting caught up later on after you've done half of the work yeah, and it's a really good point for leaders as well.

Speaker 1:

Anybody who is in charge of tasking teachers treat your teachers not like children, obviously, but how would you? If you're in a classroom with a with 30 students, how would you communicate the task to them in a way that would be received and they would be giving you back that task in the exact way that you would like to? So is there a success criteria? Is there like a model? Is there something that you can show them? So I think that good teaching and good leading are the same thing, but that is a totally different aside to what we're talking about.

Speaker 2:

You're so right and I think sometimes as leaders, I've been in that leadership position and you're overwhelmed too, but that's not really an excuse we need to. It comes from the top down, and overwhelmed leaders leads to overwhelmed teachers, and overwhelmed teachers leads to overwhelmed students. And I'm a mum, and you're a mum, and I don't want my kids going into a classroom with a teacher that's overwhelmed.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, absolutely so. Let me ask you what are some of the strategies? And it's so hard thinking back sometimes because what you've been in education for 18 years, I've been teaching for I think, 14 years now and going back to the start, it's so hard sometimes to remember that feeling. But what are some of the strategies that you wish that somebody had grabbed your hand and shown you in that first year of teaching, just to lighten that load a little bit and make things feel a bit more manageable there's so many things.

Speaker 2:

In my first year I worked with a teacher who was brilliant but she was addicted to hard work.

Speaker 2:

This woman would go home and she'd work till 11pm at night. She'd be in early in the morning, she'd work, and that really gave me an idea of what you shouldn't be doing as a teacher, because she was burnt out and she wasn't enjoying it. My second year I taught with a teacher who was really amazing at managing her time and she was the one who really taught me how to work smarter and not harder. So I wish someone said to me look for that person on your staff that seems to be really efficient, because that person can teach you. They have got strategies that can teach you and I'm telling you now that person wants to show you how they work smarter and not harder. That's the best way to pick up those ideas. So that's the first thing I would say is look for that person on the staff that seems to get everything done, that seems to be more efficient, and learn some of their little tricks of the trade. On the same topic, the best PD is often the teacher next door or the teacher down the hall. So ask if you can go into other people's classrooms, visit, have a look around, see what you can pick up. Have those conversations around the staff room table. Don't be afraid to ask for help or just make suggestions. Say, oh look, I'm doing this with my class. It doesn't seem to be working, does anyone have any ideas? And just that relaxed sort of conversation in the staff room. You can learn so much, and I know often in the staff room it can be negative talk or you've got that teacher there that has been there for 30 years and is, you know, a bit of the Debbie Downer of the team. But they often have really great pearls of wisdom too. So listen in and see what you can learn from your colleagues and the other teachers.

Speaker 2:

The next thing is about the overwhelming amount of things that you need to remember, and I remember I don't know, it must have been first term and one of the parents came up to me and said something about their child Can you please do A, b and C? And I remember just thinking how do they expect me to remember all of these things? I think the principal had told me something that morning as well. Recess time had changed, the parent had asked me to do something and I was trying to think of my lessons and manage my class because you know it's not on autopilot in your first year and it just led to that complete feeling of overwhelm. So find something that works for you. Back then we didn't have phones that that we could walk like. We had phones obviously I'm not that old but we didn't have like um smartphones that you know you walked around with, like you went to school and your phone was in your bag and you didn't get it out till the end of the day. So now you can write on your apps though your notes app, I should say and you can jot it down there. But but find a way that works. I used to just keep something open in my diary and I would write that down.

Speaker 2:

The next thing is going back to what we spoke about at the beginning with your to-do list, remembering that it's not always going to be done, and instead of looking at it as a to-do list, look at it as a wish list Things you wish you could get done. That changes your mindset completely and I think you cross off. That wish list is a bonus. You know it's the things that you wish you need to get done. One of the teachers that came into my classroom. She was a literacy specialist and she came into my classroom to I don't know. She was tasked to come in and help me with some literacy things and she gave me the best advice and I've never forgotten it.

Speaker 2:

She said to look at your program as a wish list as well, and I loved that, because often we plan, we plan well in advance and we never can get through everything, because so many different things pop up, whether it's individual student behaviors, or it might be school events, or we didn't think about the public holidays that were coming up and we just can't get through all of those different tasks that we wanted. So, everything that we're doing, look at it as a wish list instead of I need to get these things done. So I look at that with my to-do list and my program, which I think can be a real game changer, because sometimes it's all about that headspace. My program, which I think can be a real game changer because sometimes it's all about that headspace. And then the final thing is to find a hobby or find something that you really enjoy doing, so that you've got reason to leave school at the end of the day and go and do whatever that is. It might be reading a book, going for a walk, you might play sport or it could be anything anything that you like doing.

Speaker 2:

I know that we talk so much about self-care and well-being and everything as teachers, and I think it goes way deeper than just finding something that you enjoy doing. But that is a really good start because if you don't have something that you can fall back on, I know for me me, I just fell back on working because I did enjoy it. But you don't give yourself a break and it's a really good way to burn out really fast.

Speaker 1:

I wish that I heard that in my early career. Honestly, just, I only have realized that being a mum because, all of a sudden at work, so I've just moved country, so I'm not currently in a school, but you know, a few months ago I'd get to the end of the day and I'd go no, non-negotiable. I'm walking out that door now because I've got to go and pick up my daughter, like it was just non-negotiable. This is happening and I'm switching off completely from work. But before I had my daughter, I had no reason to do that and I was. And before the unteachables. The unteachables also changed things because even though it's still kind of teaching, isn't it? But it's like a totally different project that I'm working on. But in terms of, like, the actual work I'm doing at school, the only thing that has changed that is actually having something outside to look towards, because I was working and working and working and putting in boundaries, and boundaries like what we're saying yes to for ourselves. It's not about saying no to things like what am I going to say yes to, what do I want for my life, and having that one thing that you really enjoy doing, or something that you have to do, or even something that you can use as an excuse to say, no, sorry, I'm going at four o'clock because I've got to go, and you know we'll just make something up Like sorry, I've got jujitsu every Wednesday and you know you actually don't. I think that is such a great point.

Speaker 1:

But there were so many gold nuggets along the way that I've kind of I thought about it and then I lost. But the first one that you said is about learning in the negative as well. So, even if you've got an experience with a teacher, you're still learning, even if that experience is negative. Those negative Nancy's in the staff room I love that. You said that you can also get little gold nuggets off them as well. It's so true, I think, that they can become a little bit jaded and they're a little bit of a caricature in the staff room, aren't they? But they still have so much, so much value. There was another thing you mentioned. I just everything that you said. It was so valuable and I really hope that people, if you weren't, if you were multitasking throughout that, if you driving, if you were doing whatever, go back and have a listen to some of those, because they were so good, and I really do wish that I heard some of those in my early career oh, thank you, I'm so glad same.

Speaker 2:

I wish I had heard them too.

Speaker 1:

And the wish list oh, yes, yes, that's another one that I kind of tweaked the fact that you call them wish lists, even just that, that reframe of the lessons being a wish list, even like that lesson outline, because what teachers do is they get really frantic like crap. I've got to get through this lesson, but these behaviors are happening. So I'm going to keep talking over the behavior and keep teaching over the over the talk. If we then just kind of like shifted the way that we saw that, like you know what, what's important right now is me getting buy-in. What's important right now is me getting the attention of my students. What's important right now is getting these behaviours, you know, to a place where they're productive for learning. That is more important than your lesson wishlist. So I love that reframe and that's so valuable.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I think too. Sometimes we push through with lessons and I always like to think, you know, when you get home from work and you're just so tired and you just couldn't be bothered, like you really don't want to make dinner and you really don't want to unsack the dishwasher, like you're just too tired, and you go look, I'm going to give myself grace, I'm going to order takeaway, I'm going to sit on the couch, enjoy, you know, the pizza with a glass of red wine, and then the only thing I need to clean up is the red wine glass. And I can do that tomorrow, you know, and we give ourselves that grace, but we don't give that to our students.

Speaker 2:

That's one of our favorite things to do on a Friday night, me and my husband.

Speaker 2:

I do like a salad with my pizza though, so, um, I do have a plate and a fork to wash up as well, but we don't give that to our student. Sometimes we think, oh no, we just have to keep pushing them through. And I think I was. I was really thinking about this the other day because I was saying, saying to my own kids like we were trying to clean up and they're only little, and they were like, oh oh, mom, we're really tired. And I was like we just need to do this and then we can move on. And I heard the teacher in me saying like we just need to do this and then we can move on.

Speaker 2:

And then I was like you know what, if that was myself, the advice I'd give to myself was give yourself a bit of grace, calm it down, and sometimes you can just stop that lesson. It's not working. Let's get together, let's redo something else, let's re-energize. You can come back to that lesson later. That's the amazing thing about teaching is we've got the entire year with that group of students. You can come back to it. It is okay if 10 minutes, half an hour, is wasted because they need that support, that emotional support, or they need a bit of a break, or whatever and it's not even a waste, because it's such an investment like there have been times where I've literally looked at them.

Speaker 1:

It's been like it just hasn't been working, and I've looked around at my class and I've gone everyone's off today, aren't they? This is not happening like I've. I've said that to them and I've been very open and honest about that. I go you know what everybody? How about we pop on a mindful video and lay on the floor for 10 minutes and just veg out, because I think that we all need whatever's happening right now, we're not going to be learning, so let's do something different. And then the next lesson they come in and you know, guns blazing, ready to go. So it's such an investment in the humans in the room when we do that, because we're not teaching robots that are just heads open, ready to get all the information. You know, like the humans and just like us, we have yeah, we have our capacity that we reach.

Speaker 2:

For sure. I think that's so. That is just so important that the kids and everything we do whether it's verbal, non-verbal, how we treat them they're learning, they're learning, we're modelling, and sometimes modelling that okay, we need to give ourselves a bit of a break is a really good thing yeah, absolutely speaking of modeling, maybe it doesn't it, maybe it doesn't act as a great segue, but I'm gonna roll with it speaking of modeling, what does success look like for a new teacher?

Speaker 1:

because I have teachers coming to me and they express to me that they feel like a failure. They're expected to know it all, they're expected to do it all, and I think that's because the teachers around them are modelling that idea that everything should be perfect, they should be kind of all over everything. So if you were to sit in front of a new teacher and just say to them please, this is what success actually looks like in your first year, what would that look like?

Speaker 2:

It looks like good days and bad days. Everybody has those bad days and it's kind of just about being resilient, brushing yourself off and going back again with a smile on your face. It's okay to start afresh every day for yourself and for your students, so that would be the first thing. It looks like asking questions and not trying to know it all. One of the biggest mistakes I made as a new teacher is I felt like I needed to know it all and I acted like I needed to know it all and that just built up more and more thoughts and feelings of anxiety inside me.

Speaker 2:

I remember when someone on leadership had asked me to share a pacing guide with a parent and I didn't know what a pacing guide was. I had called it a scope and sequence. If anyone out there is not sure of the language, a pacing guide is just like what you're doing each week in a particular subject. So it's got week one to 10, and then it's got sort of the topics next to it saying maths, you've got your topics down and I cried Like I went home and sobbed because I did not know what this pacing guide was. Luckily, my mum was a teacher and she told me and she was like this is not something to cry about, but I think that was a good sign that I was completely overwhelmed about something and I should have felt safe in that time just to say what's a pacing guide or what exactly do you mean? But I didn't. I didn't feel safe because I felt like I needed to know it all. So you don't need to know it all.

Speaker 2:

And if you're in a school where you feel that way, go and find a supportive community outside your school that can help you. That's one of the reasons why we set up our membership because we wanted to create that community of new teachers that can help each other. There's loads of Facebook groups out there. There's, you know, instagram pages. There's lots of different things that you can do. You can even connect with you know people that you've gone to university with. It doesn't have to be an online mentorship like ours, but go and connect with other teachers that can support you if you feel like you can't ask those questions.

Speaker 2:

And finally, there's no such thing as a one-size-fits-all to be a great teacher. There's lots of different ways to be a great teacher. You need to be you, authentically you, and you've got much better chance of having that success. Focus on those relationships with your kids, because that's what you're going to get the best out of them and they're going to get the best out of you. And remember you can take a day off If you're tired, if you're feeling overwhelmed, take a day off as a mental health day.

Speaker 2:

If you're feeling sick, take the time off. I know it can be really hard because you think I've got to actually go and set up all of my lessons and things. This is a time to work smarter and not harder Cut corners. If you can Give them a few worksheets, they will survive the day for you to rest and recuperate, because if you're not the best version of yourself, you can't be the best teacher. And we spoke about our own kids going into classrooms with teachers that aren't their best self. And I know I have gone into the classroom not being my best self and I'm telling you, the people that suffer at the end of the day are the kids, because you're tired, you're cranky and you don't have the patience that they actually deserve. So take that time for yourself if you can.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, regulation is the foundation of everything we do as teachers, and if we don't have that if we're not, we don't have that capacity then we don't have the foundation to the house that we need to build as teachers. Honestly, the most powerful thing that happened to me in my first year of teaching was this there was this teacher, harry. She was one of like she still is a good friend, but she was just the teacher that had it all together. Right, she was poised and perfect, and my friend Carly would always say perfect Kerry. She just had it all together. She was a leader in the school, she was the head of a department. Everything that she produced was amazing, every meeting, the way she spoke was incredible.

Speaker 1:

And we had this planning day, and this planning day was like a new curriculum had come out for English and we had to unpack all of the outcomes and it was convoluted and it was confusing. I'm like what the hell is this? I have no idea what this language even is. What does this mean? What does this mean for my students? And Kerry was my partner, which had a teaching partner for the day, and Kerry was my partner, which had a teaching partner for the day, and I said to Kerry about halfway through the day, kerry, because she was, she was becoming a friend.

Speaker 1:

At that point I go, I don't really understand what this is like. I was just really honest with her and I was so embarrassed because I'm like I just I don't get it. You know, like I just don't understand why we're doing this and this. These outcomes are confusing. She's like I don't know, I don't know, like the way she just went, I don't know either, just just fake it like it's okay, just it's fine.

Speaker 1:

And and the fact that she was like I don't bloody know, like I just say I do, and we just crack on with it. It was like there's a whole way to being lifted off my shoulders because perfect, kerry was just like me and she had more experience. She had more experience, but she was also had having the same thought. She wasn't all over everything and the power in that was astronomical. I'm like she is a leader in the school and she still has these thoughts and I can do this as well, I can be a great teacher and the power of us as more experienced teachers, just saying we don't have it together all the time and like it's just so important. So I love, love, love those yeah, those responses to that, and I really hope that there are a lot of teachers listening who can take that on board.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, how good was Kerry by just admitting that she wasn't sure Kerry was a champion? Yeah, we need more Kerry's.

Speaker 1:

we need more Kerry's in the world like, yeah, she was the best gosh. Ashley, it has been so lovely to talk to you and I know there's so much that people are going to get from this episode. Are there any final things you want to put out there?

Speaker 2:

thank you so much for having me, claire. This has been a really fun chat. Like, I feel uplifted after this chat with you, so I'm hoping that the listeners have too. We have our own podcast called Rainbow Skies for New Teachers. So if you're a new teacher, come over and have a listen to our podcast, but also reach out on Instagram. We're always on there. It's us in the DMs If you have any questions or you want to ask any advice. You know our DMs are always open, so come and say hi.

Speaker 1:

Please do, and all of the details for everything that you do, all of the work you do, the brilliant work you do with teachers. I'm going to pop into the episode description so people can find you really, really easily Amazing.

Speaker 2:

Thanks so much, Claire.

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Claire English

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