The Unteachables Podcast

#70: I truly didn't believe all of my students could succeed. Why this was diabolical for behaviour and engagement, and what I had to change.

• Claire English • Season 5 • Episode 70

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Today, I dive into a strategy from Pillar 6 from my newly released book, 'It's Never Just About the Behaviour' which explores the essential connection between quality teaching, learning, and managing challenging classroom behaviours.

In this episode, I explore two key reasons why teaching and learning is inextricably linked with classroom management.

I dig into how the beliefs and expectations we have about our students can become self-fulfilling prophecies, shaping student behaviour and their sense of self-worth. Why we need to be raising the bar high for all of our students if we want them to succeed, and why sometimes we do the opposite. I also discuss the  strategic approach we need to take to ensure every student can achieve the high standards we set for them. After all, we don't want to set them up for failure either way!

In this episode, I discuss: 

  • The downwards spiral of low expectations: Recognising and overcoming our own biases about student behaviour and achievement.
  • How our behaviour as educators reinforces these expectations.
  • The feedback loop that affects student outcomes.
  • Why believing in a student's potential is an act of compassion.
  • The importance of providing both challenge and support for optimal learning outcomes.
  • Practical strategies for implementing this balanced approach in your classroom (it really is like Goldilocks and the three bears!)
  • The concept of scaffolding and its role in student success.
  • Practical tips like the "me, we, you" process to implement scaffolding effectively.
  • + Much more!

So, if you're looking for actionable strategies to enhance your teaching practice and proactively classroom manage, this episode is a must-listen.

Other related episodes to listen to:

Episode 28: "Are You Setting Your Students Up for Success or Failure Without Even Realizing It?"

Episode 22: "Why Your Students Might Be Rewarding or Punishing You with Their Behaviour: A Discussion on the Insidious Pedagogy of Poverty."

If you haven't yet, you can grab a copy of my book "It’s Never Just About the Behaviour" by heading to:

Amazon Australia
Amazon UK
Amazon US
OR googling the book title in your home country so the best way to purchase pops up!

If you've already read the book, leaving a positive review would mean the world to me. Email or direct message me a screenshot and receive 13 beautiful posters of the book illustrations as a thank you!

Have a question, comment, or just want to say hello? Drop us a text!

Resources and links:

Connect with me:


Speaker 1:

And these beliefs create this enormous ripple effect. They are a self-fulfilling prophecy which directly influence a student's behavior, whether positive or negative. Oh hi, teachers, welcome to Unteachables podcast. Congratulations, you have just stumbled across the best free professional development and support you could ask for. I'm Claire English, a passionate secondary teacher, author, teacher mentor and generally just a big behavior nerd, and I created the unteachables podcast to demystify and simplify classroom management. I want this podcast to be the tangible support, community validation, mentorship, all those pretty important things that we need as teachers to be able to walk into our classrooms feeling empowered and, dare I say it, happy and thrive, especially in the face of these really tough behaviors. So ready for some no-nonsense, judgment-free and realistic classroom management support. I've got your teacher friend, let's do this. Hello, wonderful teachers, welcome back to the Unteachables podcast.

Speaker 1:

I am six episodes into a series where I dive into each of the pillars of my book. It's never just about the behavior which is now. It's officially out there, it's officially released, and it's such a scary, vulnerable thing releasing a book. It is petrifying. When I saw pictures of people receiving the book for the first time, I'm like, oh my gosh. It's like that in-between period where, like you've written a book, you've only had the editor and the publishers and a couple of select people actually read the book Some of them not teachers and you're like I just I know this is good, but maybe it's not going to be received in the way that I want it to be received. And then there's that in-between phase where finally, after months and months over a year of waiting for this book to be released, you see that it's finally in somebody's hands. And then there's that silence and you're like holy crap, what is going to happen? What are people going to say? How is this going to be received? Well, the first lot of reviews are in for the book and I'm blown away. I can't even contain my excitement about what this book can do for, like teachers and like people have said, they've bought it for their administrative team and it's just so exciting. So I'll just read a couple out to you of just like little snippets of the bigger reviews.

Speaker 1:

Someone said let me say this, If I had this book, it could have saved me years of trouble, confusion and tears. Another person said I can only imagine the progress we could have made with a resource like this. Somebody else said it feels like Claire is in the staff room with you having a coffee and you both sat talking about the students you teach and Claire's your mentor guiding you. Somebody said so clearly, written by someone who gets it. Other reviews saying it should be essential to all. It's brilliant and my mind is blown and I'm so excited. I'm so happy that this is how it's been received, because obviously that is how I intended it for it to be received and for it to hit that mark. I'm just I'm beaming with pride and excitement for what this could potentially bring for the future and this is just such a nice contribution that I've been able to make, so it's kind of been worth it. Like all that time and sacrifice, you know, like swinging Ava around in the kitchen next to the extractor fan while I was trying to write like drafts of the chapter so she could nap on me. So I had a little bit of time to work. I just think back about all those moments that have been so worth it.

Speaker 1:

Now that this is out into the world, if you want to read the reviews, they're on Amazon, by the way. I haven't just made them up out of the top of my head, so they're all on Amazon if you want to have a look and just a reminder as well. Thank you so much for those of you who have already reviewed the book, but if you haven't yet, please go and do so and send me a screenshot, because I will send you a gift just to say a massive thank you. I know it takes time out of your day to review something on Amazon but it does. It means so much to me. It helps me reach more educators. It's that really kind of important time in the book's history where it's brand new, it's fresh and Amazon need to know if it's worth sending out to the teaching world. So if you could go on there and review it, it would mean so much. And as a thank you, I will send you the link to 13 of the most beautiful posters from the book. So Susie Hacker was my illustrator, who I spent a long time seeking out, and she was a gem to find. She lived in East London as well at the time and it was just. It felt like such a good fit and she was able to bring my vision to life in ways that I did not I couldn't even imagine. I'm so grateful to her. So if you want a copy of those posters for your staff from your office. They're just the most perfect representation of the concepts in the book. Then send me a photo of your review, either email at claire, at the dash on teachablescom or just over on my Instagram, if that's easier. The dot on teachables, then I will send you the link to download those beautiful posters and those beautiful illustrations.

Speaker 1:

Okay, so this chapter of the book that I'm going to be speaking about today is be challenging and this particular pillar sorry, I use pillar and chapter interchangeably so you know what I'm talking about but this pillar is a living, breathing testament to the fact that classroom management is never just about the behavior, because I go into quality teaching and learning and the link between pedagogy and a reduction or escalation sometimes in challenging classroom behaviors. And this is for two reasons that I'm going to go through today. The first is that the way that we present the lesson, the way that we teach our students, it is a representation of the beliefs that we hold about them, and these beliefs aren't something that we necessarily think consciously. They might be unconscious, but we do have beliefs about our students that we hold and these beliefs create this enormous ripple effect. They are a self-fulfilling prophecy which directly influence a student's behavior, whether positive or negative. They influence a student's self-worth, they influence a student's ability to succeed in your classroom. The beliefs that we hold about our students can lead us to setting the bar for them, and the bar can be set really high for some students and really low for others, and this is no criticism on any educator.

Speaker 1:

I just think back to the first few years of my teaching and there were students in there that in my mind, without even realizing it, I'd labeled as low ability or I'd labeled them as really disruptive, and because of that, I was focusing my energies on the students who, in my mind, wanted to succeed. Of course, every single child wants to succeed, but some of them don't feel like that's possible for them. So I was indirectly excluding the students in my classroom who I didn't feel like could achieve to the level that you know. So I've set the bar low for some of them. So we have to be setting the bar high. We have to be showing these students that we believe in them. So that is the first part of teaching and learning being something that is really crucial for classroom management and behavior. The second thing feeds into that. The second thing is that if we do want to raise the bar for every single student, we need to do it strategically and make sure that they can actually achieve to the level that that bar has been set for them.

Speaker 1:

So let's just say a student that I'm thinking of, let's just say his name is Ben. Just say, if in class I see and I recognize all of a sudden that crap, I have set that bar low for Ben. He is struggling, but Ben has had nothing but failure, like felt abject failure in school because of whatever reason. He can't thrive in that environment, for whatever reason has happened. So just say, all of a sudden I'm like you know what? I have these preconceived ideas about Ben, I have these beliefs about Ben and I want to make sure that I'm raising the bar for Ben. That's fantastic. But if I raise the bar for Ben in a way that he can't achieve it, it is going to make it harder for him and he's going to think, oh my God, crap. All of a sudden the classroom becomes a place that feels very unsafe for me because again, I can't succeed in the way that this teacher wants me to succeed. So we need to be raising the bar for our students, but we need to be making sure that when we raise that bar, they are actually supported to reach the bar.

Speaker 1:

When we think about this idea, of the beliefs we hold about our students, the way that I present this in the book is that it's a bit of a downward spiral of low expectations. The first part of this cycle, this spiral, is that we have poor expectations of a student's behavior and achievement, just like, for example, I had about Ben in the beginning. Then, because of those expectations that we have about their behavior and their achievement, that bar that we set we behave in ways that communicate those poor expectations, whether consciously or not. So just I'm not saying that I did this with Ben particularly and I'm not saying his name is Ben, I'm just making up some random name but just say that I have these low expectations of Ben. Maybe I allow him to sit in the corner of the room on his phone because he's not at least then he's not disrupting the class. Maybe I let him leave the room after he's only done one sentence on his work, rather than challenging him throughout the lesson. Challenging in a positive way to say you can do better than this, or providing him, with support, to do better than that.

Speaker 1:

Then the third thing once that happens, once Ben realizes that Miss English doesn't give a crap whether I finish my work or not, miss English, she's just letting me sit at the back of the room because she knows that I don't have the capacity to do this or whatever. Then that student starts to believe it reinforces. So they behave in a way that then reinforces our beliefs around their behavior and achievement. So Ben then does switch off even more. Ben's behaviors then do escalate in a way that makes me think you know what? He doesn't give a crap, he doesn't care about his learning. So this is a downward spiral of low expectations that happens all of the time in our classrooms. Again, it's not something that I want to blame anybody for or shame anybody for. It just is what happens in our classroom sometimes and it's just important for us to be able to recognize this If you want to learn more about those.

Speaker 1:

By the way, about the concepts that I've just spoken about, there are two episodes that I'd love you to go and listen to. The first one is number 28. So, episode number 28, are you setting your students up for success or failure without even realizing it. And that is all about the Pygmalion effect and the Gollum effect, which is the self-fulfilling prophecy that I just spoke about, and episode number 22, which is called why your students might be rewarding or punishing you with their behavior a discussion on the insidious pedagogy of poverty. I've written an article about the pedagogy of poverty for Everyday Magazine as well. It is such an important thing for us to be aware of as teachers, because once we are aware of them, then we can start to shift our own behaviors around these things and our understanding and everything like that. When we're not aware of something, we just don't know what to change. So those are two episodes I definitely suggest you go and listen to.

Speaker 1:

So we need to provide challenge to our students, we need to raise the bar, we need to believe in them and, as I say in the opening of the pillar, be challenging fiercely. Believing that a child can achieve is a powerful act of compassion, and giving the right support and insisting they do so, that right there is life-changing. It really is about that Goldilocks and the three bears kind of giving the right support. So it's not too cold, not too hot, just in that right place. So in the coldest of scenarios, that coldest of porridges. We don't believe in them, we don't challenge them and they have no support, and that leads to apathy and disengagement and limited academic output. That's where the pedagogy of poverty sits, where we just don't care to support them anymore because of whatever reason. That's Ben sitting up the back on his phone because I'm not going to bother challenging him because he's not going to learn anyway. So what's the point?

Speaker 1:

The second thing is just say we give them lots and lots of support without the challenge. That leads to things like safety and comfort, which is what we want, but it's suboptimal learning because we're not challenging them. So they maybe start to think, oh well, like I'm going well here, but they're not being challenged, they're not actually learning anything, raising the bar without support. So just say then we give them lots of challenge, but then not a lot of support. That leads to stress, it leads to apprehension, it leads to anxiety, it leads to discomfort, and then from that so lots of challenge with little support we can see an increase of challenging behaviors. So the perfect porridge, that nice, warm porridge, is high support and high challenge. So when we give high support, when we are challenging them in the right ways. There is growth, there is learning, there's engagement, there's autonomy, confidence and resilience, which is all about pitching things in their zone of proximal development, which is that Vygotsky theory, if you've heard all about the zone of proximal development.

Speaker 1:

So the toolbox that I take you through in the pillar it does both of those things. It provides high challenge for students, it raises the bar for students. It, you know, makes them feel like in every way, shape and form, that the teacher believes in their abilities, and that is the power of this toolbox. But it also provides the high support, and striking that balance is all about differentiation. It's all about being able to give them access to their learning, but not in the sense.

Speaker 1:

I hate when people think the differentiation is just about setting like 30 different pieces of work. It is impossible. I think that that's why differentiation like really struck fear in my soul throughout my teaching career, because I'm like, oh how the hell, as well as teaching these seven classes you know however many lessons a week, seven times three classes I've got, that means you know seven times 30 kids I then have to individualize the learning for and differentiate the learning for. Luckily, that is not what true differentiation is. It is about access. It's about every single student having access to the learning and the lesson, and that's what real differentiation is, and I think that's why it's been changed to be called adaptive learning in the UK. I believe, like that happened in my mat leave, that's why it's so important to stay in the classroom, because everything changes so quickly. So I feel very like I'm in that in-between period in New Zealand at the moment between you know, teaching in the UK and then going back to Australia and teaching in Australia. So I'm like a little bit nervous like what's changed since it's been eight years since I've taught in Australia as well, like what has actually changed. Anyway, that's a complete aside.

Speaker 1:

So, when it comes to differentiating for a whole class and adapting the learning and providing access, what is key is scaffolding and I like to think it like a kind of building site. Like you know, the scaffolding on a building site, and I think there's a lot of crossovers there between these two things. So much like scaffolding on a building site. It should be something that is a standalone structure. So when scaffolds are in place and working well, they're like ladders, they're supports, they're harnesses. What is really important about that is that, as the teacher. We don't have the capacity in that lesson to be physically giving a leg up onto the roof of 30 students Like I love this metaphor, it's so good. We don't have the capacity to be doing that. Instead, we need to provide individual supports for students around the room that act as these supports, these standalone structures. So, just like scaffolding on a building site, the tasks would be just out of their grasp. It should provide just enough support for students to tackle the challenges and build their confidence towards independent learning and mastery. Just like on a building site, you wouldn't put a ladder three meters over the roof that they need to get on. It's just providing the right amount of support at that moment to be able to tackle the task at hand.

Speaker 1:

And the third thing that third crossover with building sites and scaffolding and what we need to be doing in the classroom is that it is temporary. You don't see a house that is completely finished, with scaffolding still on it. It is taken away once the build is complete. The same as in our classrooms when students master something, when they're starting to develop towards mastery. So when the build is complete, it's removed, it's packed away. So when a student has been able to write that paragraph that you have scaffolded them towards. You take that scaffolding away and then they begin to hardwire those skills in their own independent writing. This is one example. So there are plenty of strategies when it comes to scaffolding, but a very quick way you can implement more scaffolding into your practice is just to ensure you're giving students support through using that me, we, you process.

Speaker 1:

I like to think about this idea of modeling as like the mother of all scaffolding. It's like the foundations that we need to have in our teaching and learning pedagogy that then spurs on everything else. It's like the heart of differentiating and modeling and all the rest of it. So all the me, we, you I'm sure that some of you have heard about it. It's a very popular pedagogical process the me, we, you process. Very popular pedagogical process the Me, we, you process. It's just about stepping students through doing something.

Speaker 1:

So I tried my hand at pottery making a couple of years back and I was rubbish, probably because I was. I'm making up excuses now, but I was in my first trimester of being pregnant and he was really worrying me about like inhaling the pottery, the pottery dust, and I felt really sick and it was awful but I was rubbish, but it is a great way to explain the whole idea of me. We and you. So me, the potter would start the lesson by getting us to come around the wheel where he would show us a new skill for throwing for the clay. So he might, you know, show us, like, how to make the God, I don't even remember now something. He'd do something, then he would do we. So, one by one, we would come up and he would help us kind of feel how the clay is, or to show how to make the walls or whatever it might be. So he gets us up one by one just to feel something, to experience something, and then we would all go off onto our own wheels and make a piece for him. He'd come around while we're making a piece and he'd be correcting our technique, or he'd be coming over when we raised our hand and I was raising my hand a hell of a lot. That's okay. I needed a lot more modeling and scaffolding than other people, I think.

Speaker 1:

But that is the same as when we teach our students something, whether it be a paragraph, and I say you know what everyone? Okay, let's stop what we're doing. Look up here. I'm going to show you how to construct a really quality short answer question or a paragraph, and then I might show them. And then now let's try this again with the next question. Who's going to help me, kate? Tell me how to start this off. Fabulous Henry. What goes next? Oh, fabulous Henry. What goes next? Oh good one, but that's a little bit later. James, how do we do this? Yep, fab, let's write this up on the wall. Look at that. Everybody, we have just constructed a beautiful quality paragraph or quality short answer question as a class.

Speaker 1:

Now that you've helped me with that one, you're going to go off and try it yourself. I'm going to be coming around and seeing how you're doing. Put your hand up if you need some help, but I have confidence that you can now get started and try one of your own. So maybe with that task, you have some sentence starters, maybe you have some boxes they can fill out with reminders on what goes where. Maybe you only hand those particular scaffolds out to students who have expressed needing a little bit of help, so you can non-verbally support them and guide them and build their confidence in doing so independently. Remember, it's supposed to be something that is an independent support so you don't have to sit there with each student then and go through the process of modeling again because you've got then another scaffold to support them. So this is so foundational and it's just absolutely something that every single teacher needs to be using.

Speaker 1:

When teaching a new skill or a new scaffold, a new equation, a new process, anything that you're teaching for the first time, it's something that they need support with. They need to be shown how to do it and they need to be shown the way. And that is how you hold them to a really high standard. You hold them to that potential that they so when I say to my students at the start of the year you're going to write an essay for me, and remember that Ben student I was talking about that usually sits at the back with their teacher and does one sentence, he's probably thinking in his mind there's no bloody way that I'm going to be writing an essay by the end of this term. Ben will be writing an essay by the end of the term because he will have the scaffolding and the steps and he will have absolutely everything he needs to write one independently in the way that he can. He has the support to do so. That is powerful and that will support Ben when he comes in to feel safe, to feel secure, to feel like he is believed in, and then he's going to start believing in himself. It's not that simple all the time, but that is what happens when we really focus on the teaching and learning and the challenge that we are showing for every single student in our classroom.

Speaker 1:

Okay, I trust that was helpful, but if you do want to learn more about that, this is by far one of the biggest pillars in my book. It's never just about the behavior. It's nothing but actionable strategies that you can implement straight into your teaching practice. So definitely go and check out. It's never just about the behavior, and if you want to check that out, by the way, you can go to wwwgod www. Who says that anymore The-teachablescom forward slash book and that will give you a couple of links.

Speaker 1:

But if you want to just Google it because that'll then definitely come up in your country and find the best way for you to purchase and if you have purchased and read the book, it would mean the absolute world to me if you wrote me a positive review and like that really does help to reach more teachers. It sends a little message to the Amazon bot saying this is a book that's really great for teachers. I'm going to push it out to more teachers because everyone deserves to have this information in their pockets, in their hand, in their teacher bag, on their desk to be able to reference and go back to. That is all. I've only got one more left, one more of these episodes on the book, so I hope you've been enjoying them and I can't wait to see you next week at the same time. Bye for now, lovely teachers.

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Claire English

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