The Unteachables Podcast

#126: How to support staff mindset shifts around behaviour approaches

• Claire English • Season 6 • Episode 126

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This episode is in response to a great question: How do you support staff through mindset shifts?

Whether you’re leading a team or just quietly modelling a new way of doing things, this episode is for you. 

IN THIS EPISODE, I DISCUSS:

  • Why change feels so threatening – and what’s really underneath the resistance
  • How to lead culture change without lecturing or pushing
  • Why the most resistant staff are often just burnt out
  • What actually helps shift mindsets: stories, modelling, and showing what’s possible

This work doesn’t start with policy. It starts with presence.

You don’t need to change everyone’s mind overnight. You just need to hold your ground, model what’s possible, and lead with calm consistency. That quiet modelling? That’s what creates the ripple effect.

Have a question, comment, or just want to say hello? Drop us a text!

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Speaker 1:

Oh, hi there, teachers. Welcome to the Unteachables podcast. I'm your host, Claire English, and I am just a fellow teacher, a toddler mama and a big old behavior nerd on a mission to demystify and simplify that little thing called classroom management. The way we've all been taught to manage behavior and classroom manage has left us playing crowd control, which is not something I subscribe to, because we're not dancers, we're teachers. So listen in as I walk you through the game, changing strategies and I mean the things that we can actually do and action in our classrooms that will allow you to lean into your beautiful values as a compassionate educator and feel empowered to run your room with a little more calm and, dare I say it, a lot less chaos. I will see you in the episode.

Speaker 1:

Hello, fabulous teachers, Welcome back to another episode of the Unteachables podcast. I'm Claire English and I'm your host, and I'm just absolutely thrilled that you've decided to spend a bit of time with me today to talk about staff mindset shifts around behavior. That is a doozy, and I've been asked to do an episode on this so many times more times than I can count. I get asked about this all of the time, so I thought it was finally time to bite the bullet and talk about how to create culture shifts in school around behavior. This is going to be particularly beneficial for any teachers or leaders who are in charge of facilitating change in their schools around behavior who are trying their darndest to kind of introduce models that are less punitive. It can be really hard. Mindset shifts are really hard. You can't force people to change how they think or work with kids, especially because that challenges everything that they've been taught or everything they've relied on. You know these are shifts in how we see behavior as a whole and power and authority and the role that we have in our room and the role of a teacher, and these are the shifts that shake up everything we thought we knew about classroom management and behavior. You know that's hard and you can't make people shift. You know you can't force it and that's why cultural changes in schools are the toughest and longest processes. Also, I did say at the top of this episode that it was about, you know, creating culture shifts and all that kind of stuff and it would be beneficial for leaders. But please just scrap that because it's going to be great for anybody, because there are so many teachers I support who are doing incredible work in their classrooms and really trying to make changes and, you know, really challenge the way that things have been done or are being done. And they always come to me and ask about how to kind of facilitate change and how to make people kind of see the benefits of the approach they're taking and, like it is a bit of an uphill battle for teachers as well when they're in schools, that kind of conflict with those values. So this is definitely relevant for you as well.

Speaker 1:

So I would like to start with a story from one of my behavior clubbers. She is a third year teacher and she's been working with me for quite some time now. But when she started implementing the strategies that I was teaching her and when she was, you know, trying to explain to people why she was taking a certain approach with students and you know all of the things, that was kind of against what was normalized at the school she was at. She was treated pretty poorly, Like she was looked down on. She got the eye rolls like the whole shebang right and she was. It was quite sad to listen to that and she was really trying to work with some of the most extreme behaviors and trying to do it in a way that really was aligned with her values and, you know, like felt right for her and felt right for the students that she was teaching and she is just one of the most incredible, compassionate, beautiful humans I've ever met in my life.

Speaker 1:

She could have really doubted herself, Like she was at the time what first first year teacher like going into a second year of teaching when she started to work with me. She's in a third year now but she, a hundred percent, could have gone okay. Maybe I'm not like I probably would have done that. I probably would have gone okay. Maybe it's not right the way that I'm trying. Maybe I am being weak, Maybe I am being too soft, Maybe I am going to get walked all over. Like it took a lot for her to say no, I am aligned with these values. This is the approach that I want to take. I'm working with Claire Like these are the strategies that I'm using and I'm sticking with it. And she did stick with it. She stuck with her approach calm, clear boundaries, compassionate, talking to the kids, not at them. She stuck with it.

Speaker 1:

And now the same staff that rolled their eyes, the same staff that thought her approach was weak, are coming to her asking what she's doing. They are calling her magic. They ask how she's gotten these kids, who are so hard for them in their classes, working so well in hers, able to engage in dialogue with her, able to connect with her. They are sending the tricky kids to her to work with because they think that she's magic. They think she's got something different about her. Her senior leadership team now use her as a model for good practice.

Speaker 1:

She's in her third freaking year of teaching and she was laughed at. She was, you know, her staff rolling eyes at her because she was taking a path that was different to what they were taking and they doubted her and they doubted her and they doubted her and they thought she was weak. But now she is a model for excellent practice in her school in her third year of teaching. And the thing is that she isn't just positively impacting the students that she's working with, she is actually shaping the culture inside of her school just by modeling. She is a leader in the school just by modeling the practice that she is implementing day after day after day. And she says to me Claire, it's not like I'm, you know, trying to lead the staff. It's not like I'm trying to do anything, I'm just trying to implement. I'm not like she says, I'm not even that confident yet, but I am just a little by little implementing the strategies that you're teaching me. And I'm like she says, I'm not even that confident yet, but I am just a little by little implementing the strategies that you're teaching me and I'm seeing this magic happen and people are recognizing it. So she's leading behavior. She is shaping the culture inside of a school, not by telling people, not by lecturing people, not by shaming people, not by taking away the tools teachers have been using. She hasn't needed to do any of that. She is doing it by modeling. And that is the thing. Leadership when it comes to classroom management and behavior isn't about being the most experienced. It's not about having all the answers. It's just about showing people what's possible through your practice.

Speaker 1:

When I was in my first year of teaching, I was a very young leader, Like I was leading a team of 12 in a headteacher capacity when I was in my second year of teaching and that sounds ridiculous and it was ridiculous. And now, looking back, I'm like I had a lot to learn before I was able to step into that position, but I did it. I was I, you know, I did it scrappy, I did it very early and I did it in the best way that I could. Obviously, I was very happy to go back into the classroom and continue to hone my craft. But the reason I got that job was because in my first year of teaching I had this very tough year seven class very, very, very tough, and I was able to take that class that people thought were hopeless, that they thought were the worst class in the school, and I was able to turn that class around and they became my favorite class ever, like to this day.

Speaker 1:

I think I've mentioned them on the podcast before. I will never have a class that I love more than these children and it's because I was so protective of them. Everyone thought they were just so crap and you know, now they're in their mid twenties and they've got babies of their own and families and like they're just so beautiful and so precious. But, um, you know they were really looked down on this class and when I went for this job as the head teacher of teaching and learning and learning support when I was in my second year of teaching, I used them as a model for behavior change and how I could impact children, and I did it through that model. Like I didn't sit there and say like I know this about behavior, I know that about behavior and this is the black and white stuff that I'm doing. I said this was the case study. Like this is the class that I turned around because I know the power of connection, I know the power of this, that and the other.

Speaker 1:

So leading culture and shaping culture is so much more about modeling and showing people what's possible. People shift through feeling and they don't shift through being told. You can have the best research, you can have the best slides for a professional development session, but if it feels like a judgment or an attack or and when I say attack I mean an attack on the like system that they've been using, Like people get very protective of their behavior management approach and if something questions that, if they feel like they're being judged for that, they're going to completely clock off, Like they're going to spike that information out. They need to see it working, they need to see it in action and then maybe they'll get curious about getting some strategies of their own up their sleeve to implement in the classroom and that is the most important step. They've got to see it to believe it right.

Speaker 1:

The next thing I want to mention is that it can be quite scary for teachers to make changes when it comes to their behavior approach, especially in schools where it's been very black and white and all consequences. So you know a student does this, then a constant, you know a certain consequence, so they get a detention or they get a call home or they get kicked out. Those tools don't work long term. We know that, like we've got the research to back up that these punitive consequences they're not working for our students, especially the ones that they're designed to work for. But they do make teachers feel like they're in the driver's seat and they're in control.

Speaker 1:

So when we take away those black and white options and offer more relational strategies, that can feel a little bit like gray area, you know, because it is very nuanced. So I can't say to teachers, like someone asked me that in my inbox like hey, Claire, have you ever thought about doing like a flow chart for schools where you say, like this baby happens and then you can do it? And I said no, I can't do that. Like, maybe if I'm working one-to-one with a school specifically on like uphold, like overhauling their behavior policy, then yes, I'd be able to maybe offer something like that, but as a you know, as a day-to-day thing, I can't possibly like say this behavior happens and then this happens after that, because all behavior is so unique and nuanced and it really is up to us to start to like respond to whatever's happening, like read the room and respond to what's happening in front of us and respond to that specific human in front of us, because everyone's going to be different. Um, Anyway, so like it can feel very threatening for teachers for black and white options to be taken away and then replaced by things that are, you know, a little bit more, a little bit more nuanced and a little bit more shades of gray.

Speaker 1:

You know you're not just changing tools, they're not just changing a toolbox for them. You're messing with you know how safe they feel and their identity and their sense of what it means to be a teacher in the classroom, and you know how they are seeing their own authority in the classroom. So I have nothing but empathy for that and we're not going to make those teachers change their approaches by forcing it upon them, necessarily. I think that we need to be again going back to the modelling piece, modelling what it looks like in practice, but then replacing those tools with things that are tangible and actionable. The biggest problem with the professional learning around more relational or, you know, restorative or trauma-informed practices is they're not really giving teachers tangible strategies to try immediately in the classroom, and that feels very unsafe and that feels very disempowering for teachers. So validate their fears, validate the fact that punitive punishments can be a bit of safety for teachers and make sure that we're replacing those strategies, not just giving them something wishy-washy, and really making sure that we're supporting them through that process. If we are trying to shift culture in school, it needs to be in a very supportive way and one that really validates the experiences of all teachers, because I can definitely empathize with how tough that is.

Speaker 1:

Also, I want to say that when people feel like they're drowning, when people feel burnt out or when they feel, you know, exhausted, we cling to what we know when we're in survival mode. So I remember like I've got the strategies now. You know, I'm not going to be perfect I don't think anyone's ever perfect at classroom management but I'm much better now than I was, obviously I wouldn't be doing this podcast but that'd be a bit embarrassing. But when I was still going through a journey of kind of changing my practice and I understood how to do things in the way that I'm currently doing them, I had the buy-in, I had the strategies, I had the knowledge I would still slip back to using punitive strategies when I was struggling, when I felt like I was drowning, when I was exhausted. So it's really important to also know that these are the things that are inherited classroom management. We fall back on them, we continue the cycle.

Speaker 1:

It's just like in my parenting, like I'm trying so hard to be a, you know, a great parent for Ava, but sometimes like you can't help but kind of fall back into old patterns or fall back into the cycle or fall back into the things that are modeled to you as a child and it can be really hard to break those patterns. So holding space for that and, you know, recognizing that that's going to happen as well. So there's a lot, isn't it so hard? That's why shifting culture in schools is flipping so difficult. So what do you do? How do you support mindset shifts? You model, obviously, what I said before you're modeling good practice.

Speaker 1:

If you're a leader and you're trying to, you know, have big culture shifts in schools, you need to get in classrooms and show them what's possible with that. You have to model it in classrooms and that's going to get far more buy-in. Or get people on board to model that in classrooms when you're talking about a different approach, instead of lecturing and kind of telling, share stories and share what's possible. The energy that you put out there is like hey, I tried this thing and it actually worked, Like want to give it a go, kind of energy instead of we must be moving away from this and this is how we're doing it. And you can't do that and I'm taking away every single tool in your toolbox.

Speaker 1:

And sometimes, depending on your role and depending on the way you're trying to shift culture, it's that you say nothing and just keep showing up with integrity and showing what's possible and having that become a part of the culture and kind of I used to get people on board that were really bought into the process already and then kind of working with them as, like the strong team of classroom management support people. So yeah, it's a hard thing to shift culture, culture, but you don't need to change everyone's mind all of a sudden like it's not going to work that way and you're gonna be, you know, fighting a losing battle there. It's just about showing people that another way does exist and, over time, quietly modeling. That is what is going to create a massive ripple effect. Um, so please remember all of those things. It's such amazing work that you're doing. If you're trying to create culture shifts around behavior in school, you are doing an incredible job.

Speaker 1:

One final thing I am now based in Sydney permanently and I haven't been able to say that I'm permanently based somewhere for a very long time, so I am going to be opening up a very small amount of spaces for consultancy work in schools to support with these kinds of things. So, like you know, classroom management, culture shifts and behavior policies and that kind of stuff. So if you were looking for somebody to come in and support you and your staff, please let me know. You can reach out on my email, claire at the dash on teachablescom, and I can send some more information your way. I also have special school packages available for my full course, the classroom management lab, and schools in the past have just been able to enroll like a group of select staff.

Speaker 1:

Um, some have done their whole staff team, but some most of them have done like a small select group of staff to go through the program and then be like kind of the behavior experts in the school and support those culture shifts. So that's an option. But yeah, if you're a school and you're wanting some support, please just reach out on my email and I'll be able to get back to you and let you know how I can best support you, which would be so awesome. It'd be so good to be able to support you and your staff. I'm going to leave it there and I look forward to seeing you next week at the same time in the same place. Bye for now, wonderful teacher.

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Claire English

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